Qi/Item system balancing

I can fully support either system purposed as I have suggested both myself.

I see reasons fir the use of either and don't really grade one above the other.

However I agree that one need to be put forward as int, item and qi is currently a mess.

I love the open-ended quality of abilities, and I love thinking about them, so I really want this whole system to be balanced but not watered down. Haven't voted in the poll, but here are a few thoughts that I'll throw in to the discussion.

First, all characters would need a free stat (and items, and qi?) respec/retcon in the event of an ability system overhaul. Personally I don't mind respeccing, but it might be an unpleasant task for some.

Second, in direct response to Leon's suggestions, I like the first one better than the second. Items are the main issue, so letting them be governed by a different stat than Qi won't do much.

Second, as this is an issue about stats being balanced against each other, let's take a look at what each one is currently used for in a combat context:

-STR, a primarily offensive stat, determines the damage of a physical strike, and also grappling effectiveness, which is something that we often forget about.
-DEX, offensive/defensive, determines the speed and accuracy of a physical strike, as well as speed of dodging and other movement.
-CON, defensive, determines damage endurance and stamina.
-WIS, defensive, determines awareness and combat knowledge, which also plays into accuracy of physical actions.
-INT, offensive/defensive, determines overall knowledge and effectiveness/duration of abilities.

In terms of the offensive/defensive dichotomy, there's already an imbalance. Does this mean that INT should only be defensive or that WIS should be balanced? Or something else? I'm not sure, so...moving on. INT is the only stat that has no standalone function in combat (assuming unarmed in an empty arena), which is why it was implemented as the driver of Qi/item abilities in the first place. If this interaction were to be split between WIS and INT, INT would risk being underused again.

--Long read ahead, in which I basically type out my thought process. Brace yourselves--

✞ ascension ✞ your point seems to be that offensive abilities shouldn't be able to match both the speed and damage of physical strikes without drawbacks. The drawbacks of any given ability are supposedly that it's usually inflexible in its effect, and has a limited # of uses or doesn't scale as well. An ability that has speed/damage=INT can only be used 6 times at 100 INT if it's melee, 5 times ranged, 4 times AoE. The 100 INT melee comparison to a 50 STR and 50 DEX melee is interesting: do you want 6 chances to hit at 100 speed/damage, or unlimited chances to hit at 50 speed/damage? The first option probably seems better, but account for the fact that STR and DEX can be used for more than just one punch per post (grappling, dodging, feinting, multiple attacks), and the choice is harder to make.

However, between qi and items, one character can have an array of abilities. Items alone can provide 16 abilities max, in exchange for 16*5=80 effective stat points. The extreme case is 8 melee/ranged/AoE abilities with speed/damage=1.5x/1.25x/1x INT, and 8 abilities that boost INT by 50. With 100 INT, a character could attack 4*8=32 times, with 225 melee speed/damage each time. But wait, there's more! Considering that a typical fight will end by round 10-15, you could have an item setup that allows you to attack 16 times with abilities, with 285 melee speed/damage each time. Okay, so finally we have something that is clearly OP. Close range attacks that are almost 200 points faster and stronger than a physical fighter's 90 STR + 90 DEX, lasting through a whole fight. This setup is highly inflexible, but circumvents the drawbacks of limited uses and inferior scaling. Now the INT option is highly preferable to the STR/DEX option.

There are several possible solutions for this problem:

A. Limit the usage of item abilities the same way that qi usage is tiered (T4/5 aka "once per 20/25 INT" item abilities are the main culprits). This would uphold the balance between scaling and # of uses. That 285 melee speed/damage ability wouldn't be able to get a bajillion more uses by having identical item abilities.

B. Split speed/damage and uses of an ability between INT and WIS, aka Leon's first suggestion. With 50 INT + 50 DEX, a melee ability that has 50 speed/damage would only have 3 uses, compared to unlimited use of 50 STR + 50 DEX. The OP extreme case is now 16 uses of a 225 melee speed/damage ability. Now it's more balanced, but the discrepancy is still there.

C. Split speed and damage of an ability between INT and WIS, aka what Koop supports. However, this would halve the # of uses as well, which might make abilities too weak. Using the previous 50 INT + 50 WIS vs. 50 STR + 50 DEX example, a melee ability that has 50 speed/damage would still only have 3 uses. The item ability vs. straight stats example is harder to compare now, but the outcome should be that an INT/WIS ability setup can only match a STR/DEX setup for a few rounds. So, perhaps have both INT and WIS count for # of uses? This option is more balanced than the previous one, but also much more complicated to math out.

D. Simply make it a rule that no two items can have the same effect.

To me, the issue doesn't stem from INT. The causes are: items having power equal to Qi with more uses, and the greater effect of one big hit over several smaller ones. I went through the first cause already, and the second one is an entirely different discussion.

Will edit to add/change as I keep thinking, thanks for reading. ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

right I would have to agree with option number two here for the whole reason is it would open more build paths at least in my mind right now doing an item build kinda sucks since Qi can do the same thing but better and leave item slots open for more stats. if you split it like that you get item builds being useful and making wisdom more useful to.

Then again I have this opinion mostly do to the fact of I run a item build and plan to keep getting items for said build and well its kinda crap right now.


Now one more thing the only way I would say this is bad is the fact of the mass refunds that would happen would put a massive load on the staff team since they would have to be worked fast so people can rp again. Another thing is the fact of what would you do if this happened while you where in mid event? do you still use Int or switch while in thread.